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Post by Rangers GM (Stephen) on Feb 21, 2024 10:04:36 GMT -5
Preamble: mlbbaseballleague.proboards.com/post/53576/threadPossible area for improvement: Placing professional International Free Agents into free agency. Why this could be considered an area for improvement: Automatically gaining protect rights to newly-drafted or young international signees is a fundamental league concept which will never be replaced. Admittedly it is a mechanism that will never be fully balanced - some teams rarely get early draft picks, some are better at developing players than others, and so on - but in the main there are pros and cons that come from every type of organisation which can be adapted to. However, the treatment of established overseas professionals within the same mechanisms as our semi-random distribution of talent into the league is a legacy of a time where overseas professionals coming to the US were less common and/or less impactful than they are today. These players can be very significant, and unlike the semi-balance of farms/teams with different strengths, a relative few teams will only ever benefit from this increasing windfall. It may be time to acknowledge that an Ohtani or a Yamamoto or a Sasaki are not the same as a 16 year old Dominican kid who is just as likely to flame out before they're old enough to drink as they are to ever step on a major league field, nor are they even a top 3 draft pick - so perhaps they should not be treated the same. Possible solution: Enter any player signing with a major league team from an overseas professional league for a total contract value of $15m or greater into free agency rather than automatically giving their rights to the team that they sign with in real life. Pros of solution: - This offers the Mibble teams whose real-life counterparts are unappealing to or unwilling to invest in international free agents the opportunity to acquire them on a level playing field. - This removes the benefit of major-league-ready high-value players being distributed across the league in an uneven (and potentially game-changing) fashion. - More exciting talent for FA auctions. Cons of solution: - Added administration for the commissioner (low effort) - Added complication to the rule book Notice period for adoption if solution voted in: Immediate
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Post by Brewers GM (Bill) on Feb 22, 2024 16:13:08 GMT -5
Guess I kinda have to post here after the cap management thread post where I addressed the automatic rights thing. I actually think the current rule is a good thing. Real-life big market clubs have a better shot at these guys, small markets getting competitive balance picks etc, it all trickles down to our fantasy builds. It's a hard league w/ built in advantages and disadvantages all around, that's what's fun about it.
Sorry, I know the preamble thing was so this kind of post wouldn't be made, but I can't help myself.
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Post by Braves GM (Eric) on Feb 24, 2024 9:39:37 GMT -5
Pros: As the owner of a team who rarely signs IFAs of this caliber, I would like the opportunity to bid on these fellas, for sure. Of all the things money provides around the IRL MLB, Angels/Yanks/Dodgers/Red Sox/Giants/Mariners seem to be the teams who receive the lion’s share of $0.3 All-Star caliber players from their IRL teams’ signings.
I like the idea of a salary determination instead of an age determination, because those will be the players who are more tested and would be less likely to be bad investments.
Cons: Salary caps would be made higher and these players’ value-to-salary ratio would decrease significantly. Only a relative con, I guess.
I’d be in favor of moving the Ohtanis and Yamamotos of the world to standard FA.
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Post by Angels GM (James) on Feb 24, 2024 11:01:43 GMT -5
Pros: As the owner of a team who rarely signs IFAs of this caliber, I would like the opportunity to bid on these fellas, for sure. Of all the things money provides around the IRL MLB, Angels/Yanks/Dodgers/Red Sox/Giants/Mariners seem to be the teams who receive the lion’s share of $0.3 All-Star caliber players from their IRL teams’ signings. I like the idea of a salary determination instead of an age determination, because those will be the players who are more tested and would be less likely to be bad investments. Cons: Salary caps would be made higher and these players’ value-to-salary ratio would decrease significantly. Only a relative con, I guess. I’d be in favor of moving the Ohtanis and Yamamotos of the world to standard FA. If a rule change is based on salary vs age then Ohtani would have remained a signing of the Angels given that he was not eligible for a full INTL signing at the time that he came over. Seems likely as well that Roki Sasaki will be trying for something similar when he comes over so I’m not sure just how protective that salary basis will give us the change that this rule proposal suggests. My other leagues treat and INTL FA who signs a major league contract as a standard free agent. I think that if the group as a whole thinks the overall rule should be altered that this would be the most egalitarian way of doing so.
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Post by Rangers GM (Stephen) on Feb 24, 2024 12:41:25 GMT -5
Great point about the Ohtani/potential Sasaki dollar numbers and how that would find cracks in the original proposal. Are there any similar/different challenges with specifying the qualifier as signing a major league contract? Is that something which is always identifiable/quantifiable?
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Post by Reds GM (Kyler) on Feb 25, 2024 12:08:25 GMT -5
Great point about the Ohtani/potential Sasaki dollar numbers and how that would find cracks in the original proposal. Are there any similar/different challenges with specifying the qualifier as signing a major league contract? Is that something which is always identifiable/quantifiable? Quick thought without any actual research done into it: but maybe an IFA that gets placed on a team's 40 man roster upon signing?
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Post by Astros GM (Adam) on Feb 25, 2024 17:27:02 GMT -5
I know this conversation has already advanced past the pros / cons portion. But I’d list the following as a “con”, although some might understandably view it as as a “pro”: Listing notable IFAs as free agents alters the fantasy / fandom vibe of the league. Perhaps it’s for the best. Perhaps not. But it would be altered. We wouldn’t have guaranteed access to all players entering the league through our hometown organization. Stephen mentioned that we will never change the player acquisition method for young players entering the player pool. In the past, I used to be 100% opposed to a first year player draft. That’s not the case anymore. Looking at the GMs here, and my own growth as a baseball consumer, I’m much more confident that we could all handle that level of research. It would greatly change the league, but I never imagined we’d have so many knowledgeable and skilled participants. While this current proposal doesn’t go as far as a first year player draft, it has the feeling of a step in that direction. Again, perhaps that’s needed, but it would give the league a noticeably different feel. I also understand that this echoes what Brewers’ Bill wrote. And while “altered vibes” is impossible to quantify, it might have a place on the pros / cons list. Just for the fun of it, there’s a cool conversation in rotobaseballl about the same subject in 2009. Aroldis Chapman was the spark for that discussion. The Reds GM made the following remark: “I have the Reds and I can guarantee that they won't sign Chapman or any body else so it is not like I have anything to gain.” 1) I love that comment!! 2) The moment we sign this into law, the small market teams are going to sign the next batch of high profile IFAs.
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Post by Orioles GM (Andy) on Feb 25, 2024 17:55:21 GMT -5
(I laughed when I saw you wrote ‘rotobaseballl’ with the 3 ‘l’s. Thanks Adam!)
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Post by St. Louis GM (Bert) on Feb 29, 2024 10:30:34 GMT -5
As long as I retain rights to my own teenage boys and can freely trade for other teenage boys I see some room for, I mean, not that... you know what I mean! A minor suggestion that could encapsulate both free acquisition of young boys and prevent some teams *cough* The Dodgers *cough* from a torrent of free MLB players... maybe we just address the posting system? Everything else is a crap shoot, I'm having trouble thinking of a non-Japanese player who came over and played at a high level outside of Yoenis Cespedes and Aroldis Chapman (after a few years). Guys coming from Japan via the posting system are literally seasoned pros, it does feel a little weird to consider Ohtani / Yamamoto the equivalent of a 16-year old kid from the DR.
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Post by White Sox GM (Micheal) on Feb 29, 2024 10:55:17 GMT -5
Would have to do more research but a quick thought would be anyone from Japan/Korea that gets posted is subject to our FA. Posted players are guys who are already playing professionally in leagues that MLB recognizes. I think if they play like a decade or something like that, they can leave Japan/Korean leagues as a regular FA. There is no professional league around the states other than the Cuban league. I don’t think they have posting rules for down there.
I think this is going to be a very tough thing to implement no matter which rule we apply. There just doesn’t seem to be an easy fix.
Pros - easily identify players who are playing at a professional level, and have a greater chance at being on 26/40 man rosters
Cons - very subjective to the posting system. Doesn’t account for Latin players.
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Post by Red Sox GM (Nick) on Feb 29, 2024 11:02:43 GMT -5
Would have to do more research but a quick thought would be anyone from Japan/Korea that gets posted is subject to our FA. Posted players are guys who are already playing professionally in leagues that MLB recognizes. I think if they play like a decade or something like that, they can leave Japan/Korean leagues as a regular FA. There is no professional league around the states other than the Cuban league. I don’t think they have posting rules for down there. I think this is going to be a very tough thing to implement no matter which rule we apply. There just doesn’t seem to be an easy fix. Pros - easily identify players who are playing at a professional level, and have a greater chance at being on 26/40 man rosters Cons - very subjective to the posting system. Doesn’t account for Latin players. I like current system for all the reasons others listed above. If a change was made here, administratively I’d suggest sort of similar to above: if posted by KBO/NPB team and fee going back to them, rights go directly to Mibble team. I think a $ threshold gets pretty tricky especially with incentive and opt out laden deals.
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Post by St. Louis GM (Bert) on Feb 29, 2024 12:04:15 GMT -5
I like current system for all the reasons others listed above. If a change was made here, administratively I’d suggest sort of similar to above: if posted by KBO/NPB team and fee going back to them, rights go directly to Mibble team. I think a $ threshold gets pretty tricky especially with incentive and opt out laden deals. Plus, as we have seen, what we think the threshold is this year could be the new floor going forward. I was looking back at some of the highest profile signings, and there doesn't seem to be a good apples-to-apples comp. Darvish had a high posting fee, and the Rangers paid something like $111M all-in. They changed the system recently and Ohtani posted for $20M (more than half Darvish), but his total earnings over six years on the Angels was $39M. We would need a conference every year to confirm where we want the threshold to be based on the current rules.
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Post by Rangers GM (Stephen) on Feb 29, 2024 12:06:08 GMT -5
I know something was different between Yamamoto and Ohtani so that their contracts were so different. Were both 'posted' in some official and completely definable manner?
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Post by Twins GM (Mike) on Mar 1, 2024 8:43:15 GMT -5
Darvish and Ohtani fell into different rules. The difference is that Darvish met the minimum requirements set as follows where as Ohtani did not as he was 23 when posted The caveat of the posting system is that foreign-born players are subject to international bonus pool money restrictions unless they are at least 25 years of age and have played as a professional in a foreign league recognized by Major League Baseball for a minimum of six seasons.
Ohtani was one of the few exceptions from Japan that had to follow the same rules as signing a 16 year old from DR.
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Post by St. Louis GM (Bert) on Mar 1, 2024 12:58:12 GMT -5
See, it's a mess for us to put a dollar amount on that.
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