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Post by Rangers GM (Stephen) on Jan 5, 2016 8:59:52 GMT -5
James,
I am sorry that you feel this way about the league.
The application process is currently under review with the goal of improving both the quality and longevity (factors which are often strongly linked) of owners accepted into the league. I would suggest that your unwillingness to fully engage in this activity (I am unsure why you sent me a message answering the questions if you did not want to join the league) indicates that your decision to withdraw your application is a bullet dodged on both ends.
I would be happy to address the issues you have raised (both here and in your PMs to me), but since you will not be remaining with us I will save both of our time.
All the best with your future fantasy endeavors. Stephen
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 9:58:03 GMT -5
I answered the questions since i went into them thinking they were the type of thing I could answer off the top of my head (i acutaly like the 1st quesion a lot for things like this). Then I hit the 2nd one and realized that your expectations were silly.
Great question about Moran, Reyes and some C level prospect (i still have not looked him up). Moran is a classic guy who splits a lot of opinions and in shallow leagues is ignored but has more value here than elsewhere, really the perfect guy to ask about to show an understanding this is a deeper league. Reyes with the PED suspension is great since it is not news floated everywhere since he is still in the minors and i think it happened at the start of the offseason- so it really shows that you keep up on minor league and offseason news. The C level guy- if it was only `1- would have showed that you either have an insane amount of information on prospects (past the top 10 or so in most systems- or about the top 250-300 prospects i am out of my dpeth unless it is one of the teams i follow), in most cases show you can do some research.
IF you want people to show that information, that is all you needed to ask... even the last question- what is good and what is bad about your team- is not a bad question (personally- i do not like it since you are basically asking how someone plans on managing thier team; something i would not ask since it would be their team AND gives the team asking insider knowledge about how they are valuing their assets.).
I got to that 3 way 15 player trade you wanted evaluated, looked at the names- realized i was lucky to know half (Freeland and Nikorak were likely the deeper league names i actually know a little about past them there were about 5 prospects i would have had to look up to know anything). Simply diagraming that trade in a way that would make sense is a 5-10 minute exersize.... then you have to figure out the values of who got what.....
THen I realized NO ONE ELSE was put through this junk. I was excited to join a deep league until I realized that I was going to be the guy singled out as having to prove what I knew before I joined... the crazy part was that I was asked about joining this league by another manager already here- not just finding it on some message board- the fact that another manager asked me about joining should have been proof enough that I put in the time and am an active manager.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 10:15:21 GMT -5
Oh I want to adress my collusion claim- since it is a winner (if this was real life and someone walked into my office with an antitrust claim- i would pass the case along the authorities).
Ok, the basic economics- IF there is 100 bucks to buy 100 items in the pool- each one will cost an average of $1. If the amount to buy from that same pool of 100 items is now $150, then each item will cost $1.50.
So by starting the auction before each team had an owner (lets say 5 of the 30 teams were unowned), the math would work in a similar way, but instead of increasing the pool by 50%, you are decreasing the pool 17% (16 and 2/3 %). That means that every player in that pool would have been discounted roughly that much. So with that logic, there was a supression of prices by roughly 17%.
Now that I have established the effect, the only other aspect is people getting together... in this case it would be concerted action since it seemed like no one was trying to slow down the process (no discussion of -lets get manager then we can do the auction), instead you all just went straight to the auction.
NOw I am not saying all of you did this on purpose. I know that most people would not even see the issue, but i an certain that in a group of 25 guys who look like most routinely read fangraphs (one of the most math dense web sites out there- assuming that since the players in the questionaire were linked to their fangraphs page); that at least a few of you would know that by taking 17% of the money out of the pool- that they were going to walk away with some nice bargains.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 10:16:58 GMT -5
last comment- looks like your new format does not work.... I am sure that all but the absolute craziest people who live in their mothers basements and comb over the deepest of baseball statistics would be willing to answer a question about a bloated and silly trade that involves nobodies.
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Post by Pirates GM (TJ) on Jan 5, 2016 10:19:24 GMT -5
Just for the record, the auto-assigned FAs so far have averaged less than 70% of the cost they would have seen in competitive Free Agency.
That system is in place for the benefit of the unowned teams, not just this year, but in any year (the same system will be used in future years... perhaps with minor tweaks, but the same system) because periodically having unowned teams is a fact of life in a 30-team league.
There are a couple auto-assigned guys whose salaries are higher than what they would have fetched on the open market, but any GM taking over a team with auto-assigns is free to release then within the first 7 days. So they aren't stuck with them. The rest of the auto-assigns are bargains. MadBum would have fetched at least $20 in Free Agency. He was assigned to the Giants on a 1-yr deal for $14.7. Because of the nature of the rules, the next Giants GM gets him at a $5.3 discount relative to fair market this season, PLUS they get to sign him next year at a hometown discount, which means his salary in year 2 and beyond is 30% cheaper than fair market. Similarly Miguel Cabrera is assigned at $11.9, when he likely would have fetched $15-16 in Free Agency. The next Tigers GM gets him at a discount this year on his 1-yr deal AND gets to sign him at a discount for the future.
By definition the last few available franchises are going to be the weaker ones. This system actually improves those franchises and makes them more desirable than they were a few weeks ago. The Giants in particular are substantially better with Posey and MadBum on discounted deals.
Yes, there are a few auto-assigns that aren't "worth" their salary. Victor Martinez is a likely example. But the next Tigers GM can throw him back in the pool if desired and isn't stuck with him.
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Post by Pirates GM (TJ) on Jan 5, 2016 10:28:51 GMT -5
Oh I want to adress my collusion claim- since it is a winner (if this was real life and someone walked into my office with an antitrust claim- i would pass the case along the authorities). Ok, the basic economics- IF there is 100 bucks to buy 100 items in the pool- each one will cost an average of $1. If the amount to buy from that same pool of 100 items is now $150, then each item will cost $1.50. So by starting the auction before each team had an owner (lets say 5 of the 30 teams were unowned), the math would work in a similar way, but instead of increasing the pool by 50%, you are decreasing the pool 17% (16 and 2/3 %). That means that every player in that pool would have been discounted roughly that much. So with that logic, there was a supression of prices by roughly 17%. Now that I have established the effect, the only other aspect is people getting together... in this case it would be concerted action since it seemed like no one was trying to slow down the process (no discussion of -lets get manager then we can do the auction), instead you all just went straight to the auction. NOw I am not saying all of you did this on purpose. I know that most people would not even see the issue, but i an certain that in a group of 25 guys who look like most routinely read fangraphs (one of the most math dense web sites out there- assuming that since the players in the questionaire were linked to their fangraphs page); that at least a few of you would know that by taking 17% of the money out of the pool- that they were going to walk away with some nice bargains. Your point here would be valid if the pool of money shrank by 17% while the pool of players remained the same. But it does not. All players who ended their season on an unowned franchise are given back to that franchise (at a discounted price). The pool of players being bid on comes from the 25 OWNED teams only. The players from the 5 unowned teams are not available for bidding. So in your 25-team example, there is $2500 chasing $2500 worth of players, not $3000 worth of players that it gets to buy at a 17% discount. The $500 in players from the unowned franchises are assigned back to those teams at a discount, and are not available for bids. In fact, the 5 unowned teams (were they to remain unowned throughout FA and then get new owners at the beginning of the season) would get all $500 worth of their players back and only spend $350 on them, leaving them with available cap room for future moves and future year increases.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 10:48:01 GMT -5
I stand corrected.... This is the type of thing i would have figured out pretty quickly in this league.
The reality is that a getting to know you questionaire and then maybe a baseball knowlege question or 2 (should not take outside research) is plenty. Asking about a trade of the whole rockies pitching farm system for Pereaza and some spare parts- that is just asking someone to go way too deep. In my expirence, seeing a fantasy 3 way deal is rare, seeing a deal with more than 6 players moving is rare- seeing both in the same deal is really just trying to be confusing.
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Post by Pirates GM (TJ) on Jan 5, 2016 11:00:49 GMT -5
It's a tough balance. Because you want to get GMs who are going to take this seriously... people who are likely to be here for 5-7 years or more. And the kind of people who want to sign up for 5 years with a particular league are people who expect a lot from the leagues they join. They expect competent commissioners. They expect rules in place that encourage parity (and prevent 3 or 4 teams from gutting the rest of the league). They expect the freedom to run an unusual strategy if they choose. And they want to see that they are joining a group of people just as passionate as they are. No one wants to be the guy who is playing for a 6-year rebuild when 15 other teams are planning to cut and run after 2 years resulting in a folded league.
Finding a balance between weeding out the cut-and-run GMs without also scaring off the serious ones is tough. But it needs to be done unless you want a league where it's a revolving door of new GMs.
Thank you for the feedback regarding the process. I suspect that the trade evaluation portion may well get updated as a result of your feedback. So even though you won't be joining us, you've helped make the league better. And for that, I thank you.
But for me, it's now midnight (I currently live in Changchun, in the Jilin Province of China) so I am off to sleep. Thanks for taking the time, and best wishes to you with your hockey league.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 11:23:09 GMT -5
I would also note- 1. Tell people there is a 2nd part to the application when they apply. I assumed it was just a rubber stamp, so waking up to a series of questions was jarring (i was expecting to wake up to put in a few bids on guys before it was too late). Since no one else had to go through with the process, and i did not see it outlined in the really long set of rules I had read through, it was jarring to be told- NO, you still need to prove what you know. 2. There are 2 ways to get managers- knowing people and inviting them- and blanketing message boards. When you blanket message boards you get really hit or miss managers. People that have another manager who has seen them in action are generally more reliable (still there is always the risk that life gets in the way... i had a league fold about 5 years ago simply since 4 managers all got married and had kids in the same year- high school buddies- so it was too hard to replace 1/3 of the league).
You will scare off new manager- like myself- by adding in things they did not expect. and when one of the concerns I was already voicing was missing out on some of the free agents, then it makes it even more jarring to have this sprung on them unexpectedly. Add a disclaimer to your sample application where you will get a message for even more information (and eyeball how long it should take- since for that big of a trade, I expected to think about it for about 45 minutes before i really got a good sense of it- but looking at it quickly, i would have just stated that rockies pitching prospects are really risky and pereza for the likely closer with 6 years of control looks pretty even, even if the closer got swapped pretty quick for an even lesser prospect).
Personally- this league just feels far to button up business for my tastes (i make one joke in my application and everyone acts shocked).
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Post by Mariners GM (Travis) on Jan 5, 2016 11:40:29 GMT -5
I think you misread people's reaction to your joke.
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Post by Admin on Jan 5, 2016 11:43:36 GMT -5
James, I apologize for the way this turned out. You are right about many of the inconsistencies. You were the first one to receive the questionnaire in this league. It appears to be a useful tool in another league, not so much to grade anyone's player or trade evaluations, but rather to get a glimpse of their communication style.
We really appreciate that you showed such dedication to investigate the details of this league. I still wish more applicants would answer the "Have you read the rules" question with the honesty you showed.
As mentioned though, we are still working to smooth out the processes. The application process is still undergoing refinement. (Giving advance notice of the second set of questions is probably a good idea. Commenting on other peoples' application form may need to be discouraged as well.) It will continue to improve, as will the entire league structure. I hope there are no hard feelings on either side.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2016 11:55:23 GMT -5
nope, I was just felt that my honesty in those questions was the reason I was getting the questionaire. you literally had another guy who posted about an open 10 days ago that was accpeted in 20 minutes with no other follow up.... really made me take a step back when i wake up to questions that will take any normal person 30-60 minutes to really give any good answer to the questions.
It felt like a punishment for honesty since the came out of left field with no mention prior to getting them in the mail (and all evidence pointing to waiting form someone to just rubber stamp my application)
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Post by St. Louis GM (Bert) on Jan 5, 2016 12:57:32 GMT -5
If you aren't willing to look up /research prospects, I don't think a dynasty league is for you.
For the record, we have found quite a few people willing to go through the process and we are happy to have them.
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Post by Mariners GM (Travis) on Jan 5, 2016 13:49:14 GMT -5
I think he was more pointing out the fact that he is the first to have to answer questions to prove his knowledge. I can understand how it could be frustrating and seem unfair if he was the only one and wasn't made aware of that fact upfront.
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Post by Rangers GM (Stephen) on Jan 5, 2016 13:56:21 GMT -5
James,
You have already indicated that you wish to withdraw your application. Within 24 hours of creating your account you have publicly or privately (or both) criticised the league's rules, accused (from what I can tell) the whole league membership of collusion, complained that the two commissioners look like they've called 'dibs' on the best teams (Adam, the founder, is a Houston native and fan, whilst I joined the league 6 months or so after it had been created with around half the teams filled), and moaned with some gusto over the application procedure. Yes, it is fair to say that the application process you were subjected to was different from those before you and this could have been communicated better. I don’t think anyone could have expected the impact this oversight would have on your application, and it is with regret that you have taken such personal insult as a result.
Subsequently, three separate people have apologised to you and/or thanked you for your input – each time this easily could have been the end of the matter with us each going our separate ways, yet you continue to post in this thread and send PMs.
My question is, with greatest respect, what are you still doing here? If you are hoping for a turn-around that would see you admitted to the league I'm sorry to say that the damage has been done and the differences between you and the league are irreconcilable.
Once again, we wish you the best with your fantasy baseball future, and regret that it did not work out better between us. Stephen
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